Observation - Noticeable Drop - Summer?

Discussion in 'General Titanfall discussion' started by ensc, May 20, 2017.

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  1. ensc

    ensc Generation 7
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    #21 ensc, May 27, 2017
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
    Thanks again for your kind words and for having this conversation Omega. I think this conversation needs to be had. I think the most important piece of evidence is this:

    If those run fine, then you should not have to change your setup to accomodate TF2.

    This piece of evidence also makes something else very clear. The problem is not Origin and it is not EA, because BF1 is Origin and EA as well. The problem is Respawn.

    I do remember this very well and I find it shameful that they have not dealt with this properly. You are someone who is extremely passionate and you want so badly to be positive about TF2 and the only thing that has ever held you back was this lag issue, which you shouldn't even have to deal with in the first place, and they have done nothing about it.

    Here is why I have no problem claiming they are being cheap and that is the problem here. I want to provide a way for everyone to see for themselves. This is not something where Respawn should be looking to EA to provide them money for this, the costs to boost your bandwidth to make sure it was always say 10% more than what it is would be minimal, probably WAY less than $500/month or a grand total of $6000/year. Take a look at this. If this link works properly, it should come up defaulting to 5GB at $0.00. Just simply do this, change the GB to TB and it comes up as $445/month. That is for 5 TERABYTES of bandwidth.
    https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/pricing/calculator/#data-transfers-2

    I mean, cmon Respawn! Stop being cheapskates.

    Just in case for some reason the link doesn't work right, here is how it should come up first:
    upload_2017-5-27_3-10-37.png

    And after changing to TB:
    upload_2017-5-27_3-11-58.png
     

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  2. Ik0n88x

    Ik0n88x Generation 7
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    So here is another variable...

    I have terrible internet and an old router and my internet is split into literally 20 different directions because the amount of people in my house. I have 0 lag issues with Titanfall 2 or any other game. I'm also in NY of which I'm sure there is a dedicated server nearby.

    So my question to @Omega82 would be, when you're playing without having the ethernet plugged directly in are you playing wireless? If you're playing wireless, how many people are using the bandwidth on your connection? Everything is using that bandwidth you're trying to use to play an intense MP game (phones, laptops, ipads, smart tvs, etc).
     
  3. Omega82

    Omega82 Generation 5

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    If indeed this is the reason for all the lag I just can't imagine a reason why respawn wouldn't do whatever they could to fix it. It's crazy , titanfall is all respawn has at this point . I know a Star Wars game is coming out but titanfall is the main franchise of this company. How could it ever become more popular if new players experience atrocious lag? I don't know it's just bizarre
     
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  4. Omega82

    Omega82 Generation 5

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    No I am not playing wireless. I would have a cable ran from my modem and plugged into the router. Then I would have the ps4 Ethernet plugged into the router. So the ps4 sees it as a wired connection . I am not saying I have a good internet and it does seem like the wifi signal isn't that strong because my iPad and iPhone internet access sometimes seems slower than it should be. But again I am not using wifi for the ps4.

    Ikon if you have time go to google and type in titanfall 2 online lag. And then you will see quite a number of results of people who experience the lag. A lot of YouTube videos as well. I could be on Facebook and go into a comment section for a titanfall post and I will always see some write a comment like the game is great but the LAG is awful. Or just random comments about the lag. This game is clearly plagued by lag. Again not every single person may experience it , this is what the mystery is.

    Without respawn or anyone fixing or identifying the cause of this awful problem going forward into the future games like Tf3 ( hopefully) will also be plagued with this same problem. No no the problem has to be identified and fixed now. Even Ensc says he goes back to Tf1 and sees a lot of lag. You can't have this awful problem in an online game.

    I used to play street fighter online and the lag was awful in that game as well. The whole community complained about the problem. What you will get is hardcore fans will still stick by the game and just get used to dealing with the lag but newcomers or casuals will abandon it because the game is essentially broken. And in my opinion titanfall is essentially broken. I don't have any statistics for you but if 20% of people experience this lag issue wouldn't you consider it a broken game ? What percentage do you think it is ?

    I have no idea why directly connecting to the modem seemingly fixed this problem for me. All I do know Is the game basically was becoming unplayable. The first few months owning the game I could play a good amount before lag spikes would happen and then I would just shut the game off . I'll come back the next day play a few hours and then the lag will kick in very high and I'll have to shut it off. BUT atleast I was getting numerous hours of playtime without the lag being horrible. But from time to time especially on a weekend the lag would be atrocious all day. Then maybe around January-Feb the lag was consistently horrible. To the point where everyday the lag was just out of control and I was thinking this may be the end of playing titanfall for me. That's when i switched the cable from the router to the modem and the lag problem virtuality disappeared. Now this might certainly indicate the problem is on my end but the other online shooters I have bf1 black ops 3 do not lag like this , and there appears to be many people on the internet that mention the lag problem as well. So seems to me that the game has the problem.
     
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  5. ensc

    ensc Generation 7
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    Yes, exactly! This is has the same effect as having no matchmaking algorithm. It is not just that it hurts the players who are currently playing, but it drives potential additions to our user base away.

    Yes, exactly!

    You make a very good case that this is definitely a problem experienced and reported by many.
     
  6. ensc

    ensc Generation 7
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    #26 ensc, May 27, 2017
    Last edited: May 27, 2017
    I wanted to try to break down what this means exactly, so I went back to the Azure site and got this definition of what they mean by bandwidth:
    upload_2017-5-27_15-56-24.png

    This clearly states that this would not apply to any of what is going from the users into Azure (or upload), because that is ALL free. This applies only to data coming out of Azure (or download).

    Also, just to define better what this means is that you are basically paying a monthly fee that will determine the size of the pipe that will allow all of your users to download data through that pipe.

    I just want to demonstrate using TF1 why this is so rediculous that any users should be struggling. TF1's current user base has fallen to probably between 45 and 90 recently, but let's use 100 as a good round number and to make sure things are good for the worst case. If you assume that most people can get 100Mbps download speed then that is the most they could be requesting to take out of Azure.

    Couple definitions (for calculations below)
    1TB = 1000GB
    1GB = 1000MB

    CURRENT TF1 ANALYSIS:

    100 users x 100Mbps = 10,000MB needed (for each person to have 100MB at all times)

    10,000MB = 10GB

    10GB bandwidth on Azure costs $0.44/month (that's right, 44 cents!!!)

    So now you tell me, why should anyone playing TF1 ever be experiencing lag for even one second? When for $5.28/year all users could have all the download bandwidth they need.


    SOME TF2 ANALYSIS:

    Let's look at TF2 now and let's say there are 1,000 people playing.

    1,000 users x 100Mbps = 100,000MB

    100,000MB = 100GB

    100GB bandwidth on Azure costs $8.27/month

    Let's go to the extreme and say 50,000 people are playing TF2.

    50,000 users x 100Mbps = 5,000,000MB

    5,000,000MB = 5,000GB

    5,000GB = 5TB

    5TB bandwidth on Azure costs $445.01/month

    I don't believe TF2 ever has 50,000 people playing at once, but even if there were, for only $445/month, they could make sure everyone has all the download bandwidth they need at all times. So, for $5340.12/year users could have all the download bandwidth they need at all times.

    So, if for $5.28/year (TF1) + $5340.12/year (TF2) = $5345.40/year, Respawn could make sure all users of TF1 and TF2 have at least 100MB of download bandwidth each available at all times and they are not doing that, then please explain to me how they are not cheap and how they are not disrespecting people who paid money for their game and deserve to enjoy the game at it's full potential. By not taking care of this, it not only hurts the current players daily experience, but as Omega points out, you are driving all of the potential new players away that could keep your base alive and strong for years to come.

    AND, you know what, if they don't want to pay for it, then let us pay for it. I would much rather pay even a monthly fee to make sure I have 100MB of download bandwidth available to me at all times than to pay for some stupid cosmetics.

    I am not kidding here. TF1 is still my favorite video game of all time and if I could make sure it is acting optimal at all times, I would gladly pay $10/month, $20/month, even $60/month, so long as it was consistenly awesome.

    If you want to continue to be cheap Respawn, that's fine (actually it's not, it's total BS), but at least give us some control of our own destinies and our own experience.
     
  7. ThirdGuyver

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    Amen to that.,..
     
  8. Ik0n88x

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    You can google "insert game here online lag" and it's going to pull up a bunch of stuff. Took this just for example...

    [​IMG]

    There is going to be lag in online games, especially ones that are using dedicated servers.

    If 20% of people are lagging, the game is broken? So 80% of people are not experiencing this problem, do you think the problem is on the user end or Respawns end? You may not lag in Battlefield 1, but clearly a bunch of other people are lagging in Battlefield 1. If you're asking me to put a hypothetical on it, if over 50% of people are lagging it might be something on Respawns end.

    If you plugged directly into the modem and the game is working fine, it tells me that the problem is on your end somewhere. Are all your ports forwarded correctly? Do you lag in games that are peer to peer connection (like Destiny or CoD?)

    As far as the bandwidth goes, none of that really matters. Say you're in a low population area and the dedicated server you're connecting to is far away, there is going to be lag and there is nothing Respawn can do about that. It's all about your connection to the server.
     
  9. ensc

    ensc Generation 7
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    Look, I am more than happy for someone from Respawn to get on here and explain to me how my theory is wrong, but let's have the conversation, because it needs to be had.

    I would love for someone from Respawn to get on here and give me a good explanation why, if the TF1 user base is approximately 50% smaller than it was just a month or two ago, so you have less people using the pipes, less people using the servers, then why should those of us who are still there be experiencing more lag? If the resources available remained the same, our speeds should have increased. We should be flying around the map faster than we ever have. Therefore, the only explanation is that they have pulled resources so drastically to a point where it will not even support the user base that is left. I want and deserve a good answer to what is going on. I also deserve a solution, because I am willing to pay to make it happen. The problem is not on my end. I have the exact same setup I've had for the past 1-1/2 years, but as the user base has dropped things have gotten worse. That does not even make any sense and I would like a good explanation and a good solution, even if it means me contributing money on a monthly basis to make it happen. Just please let me know what I have to do and I will do it, but at the bare minimum I deserve a clear and complete explanation.
     
  10. Omega82

    Omega82 Generation 5

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    The game clearly has a problem with lag. And if the number is 20% yea that is broken lol. That is still way to high of a percentage especially considering such a small user base . Obviously I made up the 20% , I don't know what the percentage is. My cousin and his friends play the game , my brother play the game , my friend and his friends play the game , ALL of them saw the lag, and this was in their own houses in all different areas Lmao. This doesn't happen with other games consistently like this sorry. I just finished playing bf1 for 2 hours THROUGH the router no lag whatsoever. When you say the Problem is on my end if that were true it's obviously a very illogical problem that seems to only happen with titanfall.

    I believe me and you had this discussion about the location I live in having a low bandwidth , EVERY other shooter I own doesn't lag. All the call of duty games , plus battlefield I NEVER saw this horrible lag before consistently. All games wil lag from time to time but nothing like how I saw Titanfall. The game appears to be very sensitive to the bandwidth , so if it's not in that sweet spot then your going to get the lag. When you say respawn is not the problem yet the other games I own dont lag then you are saying that I'm lying about this ? Because saying the problem is on my end yet my other games work doesn't quite make sense.

    Its interesting that you posted the google search of battlefield showing the complaints of lag. You did make a very good point with that , and maybe you're right. I'm just saying since owning the game since it first came out I have ALWAYS saw bad lag with the game, but it would come and go but it would happen often . And I never really experienced that in any of my other games before except street fighter. Its a very odd problem. Why it works better directly through my modem I don't know , I was hoping maybe someone on here might have a better idea about it than me. Because that would suggest that my router is not functining properly but my other games work fine off the router. It's weird.
     
  11. Omega82

    Omega82 Generation 5

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    Hate to beat a dead horse but I can see other people rubber banding from the other team from time to time lol, usually everyday I will see a person lagging. And i always send them a message on psn to question them about it. I was just talking to someone he told me it lags like that all the time for him but he's used to it. He plays through a router but I think he uses wifi. If you say all games lag for SOME people and they just have to deal with it then fair enough. Maybe it just comes with the territory of online gaming. I just found it weird that me personally have only experienced this kind of lag and that was with only one game , titanfall 2.
     
  12. Ik0n88x

    Ik0n88x Generation 7
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    And all of my friends/family in their own houses and different areas play the game as well and they've had no issues with lag. Just like if you read through some of those posts on Battlfield 1, people are consistently lagging but you're not. There will never be a 100% foolproof fix to make sure no one lags in an online game, that's just not reality.

    @ensc but when a game is using dedicated servers, it's not about how many people are on it that determines your connection (especially with a low population game like Titanfall). What matters is your connection to the server. One of the problems you could be experiencing is Respawn decreased the amount of dedicated servers they're using for Titanfall 1 and the one you're connecting to now is further away. This is why a lot of people are against dedicated servers because when a game gets older and the population dies off, the company doesn't see a need to keep investing resources into it.
     
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  13. Omega82

    Omega82 Generation 5

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    #33 Omega82, May 28, 2017
    Last edited: May 28, 2017

    I have never seen a game lag like titanfall. If you want to call it a coincidence or anything else that's fine. But it's the only shooter I have played that has lagged so consistently bad. If I had a problem with my internet I would think the other games I own would lag to , but they don't. You have to indeed say this is an odd problem , and I don't think you can simply say the problem is exclusively on my end. This game has dedicated servers right ? What about the call of duty series ? Most of those games weren't dedicated servers they relied on the hosts connection right ? I'm asking because I'm not exactly sure. So let's say what you say is true , my service is limited in my area with what respawn has provided. Well I would still say that's Respawns fault , if they are providing less optimal coverage then other companies do? Why did you say games are going to lag especially if they are using dedicated servers ? I thought the point of using dedicated servers was to improve the online quality and stability? Also if my service is limited why does the game work so much better straight from my modem? That to me would indicate there's a problem with my router and not the service but yet all the other games I have ever played were absolutely fine with connected to the router .
     
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  14. ensc

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    #34 ensc, May 28, 2017
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
    Thank you Ik0n! I really mean it. I truly appreciate you dealing with me with respect. You've at least tried to provide me with a better explanation than anyone at Respawn has.

    I really wish though that Respawn would give a clear and complete explanation and provide potential solutions. For example, if what you said here is true, or something similar:
    ...then please let those of us in the TF1 community who still look forward to playing TF1 every day more than anything else in our lives know that they've decided to decrease resources of any kind to support TF1 and provide us with an alternative. I've spoken with some others in the TF1 community and they, as I, would be more than happy to pay even a monthly fee to pay for more resources to keep TF1 running smoothly. Even if they no longer care about it, there are a lot of us who still hold it as our first love and we are willing to do whatever is necessary to take care of it. We just need a way to do it.

    One more point I would make for those who might dismiss this and say, "TF1 is dead. TF2 is great. Move on with life. Get over it." Please keep in mind that even if you love TF2 and it is now your favorite game, then what if 2 or 3 years from now, the TF2 user base has dried up, maybe Respawn decides not to make a TF3 and they pull resources for TF2 and at that point you are feeling what TF1 players are feeling now. Wouldn't you appreciate it then if a good solution had been worked out now to help TF1 players prolong the life of that community so that you now have a solution to prolong the life of TF2? Also, it doesn't have to be just the Titanfall franchise. I think this should be a new trend in gaming in general that should be started, where the dedicated, hard core fans of games are provided with a way to have stewardship of the games they love and take care of them and keep them healthy for long past when the game developer stopped supporting them.
     
  15. ensc

    ensc Generation 7
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    Exactly right! And we deserve to know what they are doing and not doing and why, because if there is something they are not doing in order to save money, then provide us with a way to contribute to keep the game healthy.
     
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  16. Ik0n88x

    Ik0n88x Generation 7
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    I'm not saying it's a coincidence, I'm not saying it's your fault and I'm not saying you're lying. Call of Duty games run on a peer-to-peer connection, yes. That means the game picks a certain person in that game that 'hosts' the entire game. That means your experience is dependent upon your connection to their host. This leads to problems like 'host advantage' because he/she hosting the game, therefore has 0 packet loss/ping (meaning their bullets connect instantaneously) which created the need for what they call 'lag compensation.
     
  17. Omega82

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    I honestly feel bad that Tf2 was not the success respawn had imagined it would be. Sales wise I guess it has been a huge disappointment. But to me titanfall will always be one of the most amazing games I ever played , and I want respawn to succeed greatly. The truth is perhaps it is not in their best interest to put more money into the servers because they won't get the return for it ? I would understand if that was the reason. BUT that's why I'm saying can't EA help them more with that ? The money wouldn't be that much of a concern for EA because they are a giant company.
     
  18. ensc

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    #38 ensc, May 28, 2017
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
    Me too! At least the first Titanfall was and still is my favorite video game of all time and Respawn created it, so of course I want them to succeed, but this does not mean I will ever blindly support them or give them any free passes. If no one ever brings anything to their attention where they think they might be wrong or could do things better, of course they would be free to assume they could maintain the status quo.

    I'm sorry, but I completely disagree. At some point, you have to to take pride in your work, you have to take pride in your creation, you have to respect your customers and do everything possible to provide your creation with the best chance to succeed and your customers with the most optimal experience possible. Allowing your customers to suffer because you are not doing something because it does not provide you with a good return on investment is unacceptable. Allowing your customer's to suffer because you are not doing something because it would reduce your profit is unacceptable. There is also a chicken/egg, cart/horse argument here. You may be doing something counter productive to your own goals. You may be cutting corners in order to have more "profit" and not doing certain things because they would not provide good "return on investment". However, if the result is that your customers are suffering, the word gets out and you get less new customers. So when that happens, did you really get more "profit"? By not doing the thing that appeared to not provide a good "return on investment", when it resulted in less customers overall, didn't you just kill your "return on all of your other investments" because your cutting corners caused less overall purchases and transactions?

    Even though it is just one piece in the equation, I've demonstrated that things can be done relatively cheaply to make improvements, when you can increase bandwidth by 5 Terabytes for about $5400/year. That is a drop in the bucket when you are probably going to sell at least 5 million copies at $59.95. When you are going to gross at least $300 million and you are not doing things that cost $5400/year to support that creation that is unacceptable. That is just one example, but my point is there are probably a lot of things that could be done at a reasonable cost to improve the experience of their customers and they should not be leaving any stone unturned to do so. I certainly would be exhausting every resource available, because I would want my creation to have a good name and my customers to be as happy as possible, because that is the only way I will get new customers.

    I'm not going to let them off the hook here and I don't believe this should be EA's responsibility, because as Omega pointed out, he has no problem when playing BF1 (another EA game launched at the same time) on the same setup. This is a Respawn issue and at some point you have to take pride in your creation and value your customers more than your bottom line.
     
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  19. Ik0n88x

    Ik0n88x Generation 7
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    So what about all of those people that I posted that pictures of that ARE lagging in Battlefield 1, are they lying? This is what I mean. There is no foolproof solution to lag in video games.
     
  20. ensc

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    #40 ensc, May 29, 2017
    Last edited: May 29, 2017
    I'm certainly not saying they are lying. If some people are having issues with BF1, then DICE should be looking into how to resolve that, because those people deserve to have something done as well. If all of those people are having lag issues with BF1 and DICE is doing nothing about it, then that is not right either.

    They should both do some troubleshooting. In Respawn's case, if you have someone like Omega, where you know you have a good example where BF1 does not lag for him and TF2 does, why not send a few of your technical/networking experts out to Omega's house (if he would allow it), do some testing, do some troubleshooting, take some measurements and try to get to the bottom of it. What is BF1 doing differently that makes it work better for Omega? In DICE's case, they should try to find a similar example and do the same thing.

    To throw your hand up and just say, "Oh well, that's the way it is and you just have to accept it." is no way to treat your customers who paid good money for your game and are trying to enjoy it.

    I want things to be better for everyone and it doesn't feel like they are even trying. It doesn't feel like they even acknowledge there is a problem. I mean, I know Omega has mentioned this many months ago and I believe someone had even said they were going to look into it. Months later, nothing but crickets.