Ahh, this is the argument that is always used to prevent this from being done right. The poor old teams/groups/clans would get penalized by having to wait longer. There are so many things wrong with this argument. 1) The health and longevity of the game should always reign supreme and the most imporant piece of this is to keep the user base as large as possible. 2) In order to do this, the most important thing you can do is to give brand new players as much of a fighting chance as possible. 3) In order to do this, without having a good matchmaking system in place, which they don't, you have to favor the independant players and yes, actually discourage the teams/groups/clans. Notice, I am not saying eliminate them, but discourage them by putting them in a que until their is a suitable number of players at relatively the same skill level on the other side (does not have to be another team/group/clan on the other side, but just an assembly of the same number of players with similar skill level). Now, this only discourages them if there are not enough players of similar skill available. Right now, when the user base is larger, this will probably not be a problem. If the user base gets lower, then yes they may have to end up waiting longer. 4) They are only being "penalized" (as you say, I would say discouraged) if they choose to be stubborn, but that is their choice. If they don't want to wait, they have many choices: a) Stay together and try the same mode on a different server. b) Stay together and try a different mode on the same server. c) Break apart and play the same mode on the same server. 5) However, if you do not have a good matchmaking system and allow teams/groups/clans to sit on one side with all new players on other side, you are going to drive newer players away before they even get started and kill your user base. I actually did the math on this in one of the threads here to show why it hurts the game to favor teams/groups/clans over individual players. I will see if I can recreate it here. Let's say you have one group of Gen 10s that just sits there in a lobby all the time and they keep getting paired up with random newer players on the other side and they steamroll them. And let's say that 1 team plays a little Attrition and a little Hardpoint each night. I would say that on average they probably steamrolled and discouraged at least 2 brand new players in Attrition and 2 brand new players in Hardpoint from ever playing the game again every single day. So that's 4 players/day that they are driving away. Let's use TF1's lifespan now. It has been out 2 years and 9 months, so lets say 1000 days. So this one group of Gen 10s could have potentially driven away 4000 new players. Can you imagine how much healthier the TF1 user base would be right now if that team had not been allowed to do that? (sarcastic)Oh, but, "No, let's favor the teams/groups/clans, because we would not want for them to leave the game." Screw that! I would much rather have those 4000 players they drove away than the 5 or 6 stubborn idiots who drove them away. And this example only accounted for one group doing this, when there were multiple that did this. The best solution is to have a good matchmaking algorithm that looks at each individuals Generation/Skill/Effectiveness individually (whether they are in a group or not) and create matches by putting players of equal number and skill on the other side. This would even work with teams/groups/clans as you can see in the third example here, where Team 1 had a group of 5 Gen 10s: Notice how there are Gen 1s (brand new players in each of these), but it is all balanced out, because both sides have equal number of players and equal skill levels. I'm only using Generation for sake of example, but I would recommend the algorithm would look deeper at skill and effectiveness as well, but the principle would work the same. I do have to address your comment about the teams of players in TF1 being penalized and having to wait longer. I'm sorry, but that was just their own stubbornness. I know, because my original group of TF1 friends did this and that is why I said good riddance to them. The user base was so darn low and yet they would insist on sitting there in a block of 5 or 6 Gen 10s and then have to wait forever to get a game. It wasn't because it could not find a match for them, because TF1 did not even have a matchmaking algorithm at all. It was blatantly obvious. Here is why that was rediculous, even more so in TF1 than TF2. In TF2, it tries to wait to have a full game and almost never starts until you have full teams on both sides. However, in TF1, it would start a new game if you had just 4 total players with 2 on each side. So think about how foolish these blocks of 5 or 6 Gen 10s were. 1) If they all split up, they could get in a 3 on 2 OR 3 on 3 game amongst each other immediately. But NOOOOOO!!!! They'd rather sit their like stubborn fools and then wonder why they don't have a game and complain about it. 2) If they split up like that and played each other, it would be a much more challenging and satisfying game than what usually happened, which was those 5 or 6 Gen 10s against maybe 3 random Gen 1s. That was foolish on so many levels, because: a) How is that even fun unless you are just a bully by nature? b) By doing this you are driving potential new players away and killing your user base and, "Gee, I wonder why you can never get a game?" I mean, I had about enough of that crap after about a week of it and said good riddance to those friends and every now and then I would run across them doing the same damn thing even 1 or 2 years down the road when the user base was even smaller, probably largely because of them driving everyone away. How freaking boring and self defeating.