To "Re" or not to "Re" that is the question...

Exactly right!

 

I completely agree with every word you said here DARK and if you don't mind, I'd like to use this agreement to try to mend some fences and gain a little understanding. I agree that our approaches are different and I respect your opinion as well and I believe we both want the same thing as far as TF2 and TF3.

With that in mind, I just want to try to explain what I feel has happened between us. I actually really liked your comments initially and it felt like we were on the exact same page. However, at some point, it just felt like a switch went off in your head and it felt like a different person was making the comments. You just became very unwelcoming to anyone who needed to vent or was offering criticisms. What really put me over the top was when you wrote a thread that was the longest novel I've ever seen (even longer than mine) and used some of my quotes in it, where the underlying intention of it seemed to be recommending that this site should not even be welcoming to those who needed to vent. I took that very personally. This is why I started to feel the need to point out where I felt you were being negative or being hypocrital, which I now know you felt was me getting personal.

I just want you to know that I am trying to change. That is actually what really put me over the top about your long thread, because it was right prior to that where I had explained in a post you may not have seen that I was going to try to not be as repetitive (which I think is what you main problem was with me), because after doing research for the one thread, I realized how many already felt the same as me and there was no reason for me to try to be so repetitive. Since then, I have mentioned a couple of other times that I am actively trying to watch my tone and I usually re-read what I type multiple times before posting, because I want to try to be as respectful as I can, but still get my point and sentiment across.

Your post here goes a long way to mending any fences between us from my end. I hope after reading what I feel might have driven us apart as well as my intention on changing that it helps you to understand where I was coming from as well. I think we will just have to agree to disagree on a lot of issues and leave it at that.

 

Thank you for your understanding and kind words DARK and I apologize if I may have offended you as well.

Yes, let's hope for a better TF2 and an even better TF3.

Hope all went well at the doctor and that you are feeling well.

 

Ouch! Hope your recovery/rehab goes smoothly for you.

By the way, is that dog your's? If so, hope he is keeping you company as you recover.

 

That's good! He looks like a pretty cool little guy.

 

I agree DARK. They just have to do something to keep you there and to make you want to move along. I'm only playing 1 PC profile and I'm about halfway from Gen 4 to Gen 5, but I still play TF1 more than I play TF2. TF2 is getting so old to me at this point, especially with only 9 small maps.

I absolutely loved the challenges in TF1, which is why I bought 3 extra profiles so I could hear the satisfying ching-chings of completing all the challenges again.

I do have to respectfully disagree about the Rank system in TF1. I did share your feeling about it the first time I tried it and I turned it off pretty quickly, but then my one buddy kept asking me why I didn't have it on, so finally after a lot of badgering I tried it again and grew to really like it. I actually challenged myself to see how high I could get all 4 of my profiles at the same time. I had all 4 profiles at Diamond IV at the same time on a couple of different occasions. It does get frustrating when you are up in the Platinum/Diamond ranges, because you have to play almost perfect games (high scores and minimal deaths) or else you lose a precious battlemark. I only play 1 profile now, but it is always sitting at Diamond V with 5 battlemarks, which is the highest you can go.

Anyway, I would welcome Regen challenges, Daily challenges, a Rank System or anything to try to give you some incentive to push forward.

 

I have a question, did either of you get to Gen 10 in Titanfall 1? If so, did you keep playing afterwards (not creating other accounts) just solely playing on that Gen 10 account? I was Gen 10 pretty early and I still played the game, know why? It was FUN. The ONLY thing that keeps me playing a game or not is if it's fun... no challenges or camos or anything of the sort.

 

Oh yeah, I totally agree Ik0n. TF1 was the most fun and my favorite video game of all time, which is why I still play it more than TF2, because to be honest, I don't find TF2 to be all that fun. I almost have to force myself to play it, because I almost feel obligated, because of how much I loved the first one and it is it's sequel. I want it to be good, but it's just not. It just doesn't feel good to me. Compared to TF1, I just feel trapped. I feel hand cuffed. I feel limited. I don't feel as in control as I am in TF1. I don't feel I have the same situational awareness (the HUD and minimap are not helpful). Almost any weapon 1-shot kills you before you even know it. And then you get in your titan and that's when the real hand cuffing starts, especially with no regenerating shields. I mean, my main and most loved strategy in TF1, was to be a hit and run artist in my titan. You can't do that in TF2. You can hit and run, but your shields never come back. Plus even if they did the titans are SO MUCH SLOWER, so even if you did have regenerating shields it would be more like a hit and "grandpa moving away with his walker", so you'd get lit up while trying to get away before your shields ever came back.

Even though TF1 was the most FUN game I've ever played in my life and I did play a ton without my rank chip on and while being a gen 10, it was still nice to have the rank chip and regen challenges (if you bought a new profile) there. In my opinion, even if you added those things to TF2, it would still not be anywhere near as fun as TF1, but my gosh it needs something, anything to make people want to be excited about playing it for more than a month.

 

you know mate the whole concept just blew right over your head , pass right by you and you don't even relies it at all did you bro.

mate listen if consumers keep accepting this simple BS thing as a game ground breaking event then there is no hope . for you or the future of gaming . because listen and am not asking you am telling you , this is not the direction i would want gamer devs to keep going and feeding this type of bs to consumers every year or every time they make a game .

give me some bloody substance to replay . regen to unlock a weapon , map or an unlock able secret level some thing .any thing . it that simple and cannot be that hard to do , so please stop making excuses for them , and spare me the bullshit of oh if i don't like it don't buy BS .

 

No, no, and more no.

1). Regenerating to earn a weapon completely throws off the balance. This is the reason they're not adding any purchasable weapons. They don't want to force people to regenerate, it's there if you want.
2). Regenerate and earn a map? what? So now the people who don't want to regenerate don't get to play on a certain map, which would fragment the userbase even more.
3). Secret level? What do you mean about this? Do you mean something in single player or something in MP?

I'm not making any excuses for them and I've actually made a thread outlining and detailing all the problems I thought there were with the game so not sure where you're getting that from. To your last point, I wouldn't say that but isn't it logical to not buy something if you don't like it? For example, I despise McDonalds.. so I'm not going to go and purchase it. I understand this is different because you've already bought it but that's why Respawn listens to their community, they're giving us free content, they've updated the game multiple times already based on user feedback. Don't turn a blind eye to that just because they haven't fixed something you thought was wrong.

For me, I've already got my moneys worth out of Titanfall 2. Let's do some math.

I've put in a total of 40hrs into this game (combining Xbox and PS4) for $64.79 (base price where I'm at in the US)
So 40hrs of enjoyment (because I enjoy the game) for $64.79

Let's relate that to movies now.

Let's say an average movie is 2hrs long, I'd have to had watched 20 movies to equal the amount of time I've put into this game and the average price of movies where I'm at is $13 so 20x13 = $260 for content that I haven't even participated in... not to mention all the stuff they're going to be adding to this game.

I never said Titanfall 2 was 'ground-breaking', I said it was fun and that's all it needs to be to keep me playing. I will always challenge developers for better and more interesting ideas as I've done throughout these and the Respawn forums. However, I'm an optimist so we generally see things differently and we have different opinions on the current state of the game which is fine.

 

Ik0n88x mate you still not fully understand the point and concept my friend. if you or any one wants progress you have to push to be better, granted sometimes things in life are a masterpiece but that does not mean you don't try to be better or do something different.

as far as the weapons and the maps and so on those are not to be taken in the literal sense you have a habit that you read too much into something and have a what people will call tunnel vision and i understand as a consumer you don't even realize it .hence your points you made to a certain extent.

1. movies in the us are getting worse they keep coming out with BS only a handful of innovate movies come out every year and if movie makers don't take a hint like what they are doing now they would be losing even more than they are already.

2. as for the lost levels or maps , my friend those are what you call punchlines say a word or concept and roll with it get new and better ideas it does not have to be literal you understand .

3. you got your money's worth , bro please you are sounding like a sheep consumer which is fine as most Americans are like this hence things like the IPHONE just to name a concept , every year they come out with almost the same thing say it's different and people flock to it lol. do you understand where i am coming from.

4. What is the difference and how unlocking a new weapon when you regen or don't disrupts balance who feed you this load of BS . what is the difference when a player unlocks a weapon at level 15 to level 39 to 50 that does not affect balance how the heck getting a weapon when you regen will. bro when you regen is just a cheap way to show that you started over and you have a symbol to show that a cheap tactic that COD and other games did to give there game some substance , it does not mean squat . bro do you or any one really thing that having a psn trophy or being a gen 10 means any thing in reality or physical world , dude that is the mindset consumers need to get out off. it's like a mother or father or teacher telling there kids or children at home or school here is a gold star you are special . because someone had a title that does not mean that they are the definition of what or how things should be . because some one has a title of manager and another has the title of stock boy does not mean squat , do you see what i am saying .

my friend please understand that what i am saying is don't get caught up in the mix , regen is a concept that COD came out with years ago it's just a concept of leveling up .

any how am ranting and am sorry i will continue this another time ,

cheers mate .

 

Please, don't apologize for ranting Trini. You are usually the voice of reason to me, but I am really liking the passion in this version of Trini.

If I may, I think we all want the same thing. We want the game to get better if possible. We want it to get as good as possible. We want it to have SOMETHING (not sure what, could be multiple things) that makes players want to keep playing the game. We want this not only for ourselves, but for other users (current and future) so that we can maintain a decent size user base. I think we all could agree on all of that, but we may have different ideas of how to get there and different perceptions of what was and what is.

I know Ik0n, you are going to say that the game being FUN is all you should need to keep people playing. I completely agree with that and that would be the most ideal thing. That is what kept both you and I playing TF1 for years even while at Gen 10 Level 50 and with the Rank chip turned off. However, our perception of TF2 is different. You think it's fun. I find it very unfulfilling and unsatisfying. I would love to see them make significant changes to the point where I would also think it was fun, but I'm affraid they are not going to be willing to do that. So, since the core of the game is going to remain un-fun to me, I'm willing to grasp for and go along with any ideas (challenges, rank chip, more maps, etc.) that might at least keep me interested, even though the core of the game will still not be fun to me.

I would like to try to clear up some perceptions that I keep hearing repeated over and over again (not necessarily by you, but by others as well) that really bug the crap out of me.

Free maps, Free DLCs - I keep hearing it's great they are doing this. This was part of the deal from the get go on TF2. Everyone knew this. They are not doing anything special here by doing this. As a matter of fact, I think they are using it as an excuse to put out lame DLCs (1 stinking map that they didn't even have to create, no new modes except a variety lobby of that 1 map). Also, now they've added a store to sell cosmetics, which they will get money for. So, now what do you think their focus is going to be on in the future. Making the actual game better, or creating more cosmetics to sell? At this rate, after 3 DLCs, this game will not even be where TF1 was at launch. And, the stuff they are putting out in these "Free" DLCs are things that should have been in the initial release of the game, so really they aren't "Free". They just held them back and we didn't get to enjoy them for as long as we should have.

The developers listen to feedback - OK, maybe they do, but it is in an echo chamber. They listen to the people in their bubble who mainly agree with them. Don't want to get political, but will try to use an abstract example where I think everyone will know what I mean. Respawn was kind of like the media in their New York bubble and they all thought and everyone in their circle thought, "Hey, you know what people really want? They want Titanfall 2 to be more like a traditional FPS game." And everyone in their circle was like, "Yeah, that's absolutely right. That's what everyone wants. You should do that." What they forgot about though was the entire "fly over" part of the country, as those in that New York bubble would refer to them, which was all of the people who actually played and loved Titanfall. They did not listen to those people at all. Frankly, they did not care what they had to say. And, frankly, they still don't care what they have to say. They are only interested in selling cosmetics now. Maybe the game should actually say Titanfall 2 by Revlon now. "Hey George, check out this new Revlon cosmetic I got to put on my titan. I paid $4.99 for it and I'm proud of it. Do you think it makes my titan's butt look big?"

TF1's problem was lack of content - I completely disagree with this. As Ik0n and I have both said, we kept playing the heck out of the game because it was FUN. There was nothing lacking in my opinion, content-wise. I only felt it needed some administrative cleanup. It needed an actual matchmaking algorithm implemented and an anti-cheat system implemented. That's it, but that's not content, and not having it there didn't keep me from playing it, it just would have made it even more enjoyable.

They made changes to appeal to mass market - I believe this was to address the faulty claim of TF1's lack of content, but also to appeal to those in that echo chamber who felt it should be a more traditional FPS game. So what were these changes and "how is that working out for ya?
"Content" Items
Single Player Campaign - it's great, but it could have been tacked onto TF1 as is. In either case, someone's only going to play it once maybe twice and it is not content that keeps you around for months or years.
Cosmetics - atter about a week of getting prompts that you've unlocked a new camo, it actually becomes more annoying than anything. It is definitely not something that is going to keep anyone around for months or years.
Levelling Up Titans/Weapons - with no reward for this other than new cosmetics, there is no real incentive and it is not going to keep people around for months or years.
"Traditional FPS Items"
Maps - the maps were designed to be smaller and with choke points to better accomodate traditional FPS play styles.
Pilots - the pilots were dumbed down by making their appearance reveal some of their attributes.
Titans - the titans were dumbed down with preset loadouts and with appearances that revealed those loadouts
Titan Shields - the regenerating aspect of shields was removed to make titans less of a factor
Titan Speed - the speed of titans was reduced to make titans less of a factor
Titan Timer - the default timer was replaced by being rewarded with your titan sooner for good play
Burn Cards - this was replaced with a Boost which only gets unlocked by good play
Camping Supports - Ticks, Pilot Sentry Turrets and A-Wall were added to support camping
Networks - this encourages playing in clans as in traditional FPS games, where TF1 was mainly strangers against strangers
Secondary/Anti-Titan choice - many run around a game called Titanfall now without an anti-titan weapon
Pilot Speed - this is not bad now, but don't forget this is not what they wanted, they wanted it slowed down way more than this and only removed some of the speed suppression after huge outcry during the first test week
Overall Content Analysis:
What did we gain?
Single Player Campaign to occupy you for a maximum of 20 hours.
Cosmetics that gets old and annoying after a week.
Levelling Up Titans/Weapons with no real incentive to do so.
What did we lose?
Larger, un-choke-pointed maps
Fully customizable titan loadouts
Regenerating shields on our titans, completing removing the "stick and move" tactic from the game and just causing you to lose your titan faster
Titan speed, making it a much slower and less enjoyable experience in your titan
Not getting your titan as soon or getting a titan as often, especially if you are not good at killing
Burn cards, now you only get a Boost for doing well
Regen Challenges, we lost some incentive or challenges to achieving that next Generation
Summary:
In my opinion, what we lost, and in particular the maps and titan loadouts, far outweighs anything we gained. The gains have a very short shelf life if any, but the losses affect the core of the game for months or years going forward.

Throwing off the balance - I hear some say this titan needs to be nerfed a little or this titan needs to be beefed up for "balance". I hear some say this weapon needs to be nerfed a little or this weapon needs to be beefed up for "balance". Or, adding customizable titan loadouts would throw off the "balance". Or, as you said Ik0n, "Regenerating to earn a weapon completely throws off the balance." I find all of these "balance" arguments rediculous when you compare them to how the move to be a more traditional FPS game (see blue items in particular) is what really actually throws the entire balance of the game off. All of these other arguments are like arguing about rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, when it is these traditional FPS changes that are making the balance sink. You now have FPS clans coming in games getting their Boosts early, then getting their Titans early, causing some on the other team to say "screw this" and leave and now the game is even more unbalanced.

I do want to say that I completely agree with your movie argument Ik0n. I always like to tell people that the average new video game nowadays costs $60, but the content of most games will last at least 120 hours (2 hours/day for about 2 months). Most people will spend that on 1 dinner for 2 that lasts maybe one or two hours. You cannot beat the bang for the buck you get out of most video games nowadays. Even though I don't find TF2 fun, I have gotten some enjoyment out of it, at least on the Single Player Campaign. Also, it gives me a lot to talk about on these forums, which entertains me as well. That doesn't mean I don't want Respawn to make the game better though. I would like it to actually be FUN to me at some point.