Financials of EA/Respawn Deal

Discussion in 'General Titanfall discussion' started by ensc, Nov 15, 2017.

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  1. ensc

    ensc Generation 7
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    I disagree with some of this guy's opinions, but he does break down the financials of the deal pretty well:
     
  2. Kingkat54

    Kingkat54 Generation 7
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    SO................Respawn stays a viable company. They can continue to make games? I am a little confused. They mentioned a future game?
     
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  3. A4eaTransformer

    A4eaTransformer Generation 6
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    in balance I think this video/analysis points towards more TF (hooray) but more dickish ploys for money (boooo). Hey, I do not mind paying money if the overall quality is good. I spend so much time playing, it averages out to very cheap entertainment. So what if they are money grubbing! It is a business. But they gotta deliver the goods.
     
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  4. Ik0n88x

    Ik0n88x Generation 7
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    Most of the money coming from performance related to how well their games do, that's a good sign.
     
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  5. ensc

    ensc Generation 7
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    #5 ensc, Nov 16, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
    I believe it keeps them viable King. If they play their cards right, this could work out really well for them. They got a nice up front paycheck. They are now in an environment where there is a lot more money and a lot more resources available, so they can thing bigger and yet not feel overwhelmed at the same time. It should give them an opportunity to really put out some high quality stuff where at the end of the deal, they will have a lot of leverage to ask EA to pay them huge to stay, or they can choose to go off on their own with a revitalized name for themselves. Its entirely in their hands what they do with the next 4 years or so. They control their own destiny.

    I completely agree A4.

    Yeah, I agree Ik0n. If they want to mazimize the latter 2/3 of the deal, they have to earn it. I like that. It forces them to have to produce something people will want. I like incentive.
     
  6. Trini Chinese

    Trini Chinese Generation 6

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  7. ensc

    ensc Generation 7
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    #7 ensc, Nov 17, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
    (not directed at anyone in specific here, I'm just referring to the gaming world at large)

    I'm sorry. I just do not and will never understand all of the panties in a bunch over loot boxes. If the core of the game is good, I'm happy to pay for everything and anything they put inside the game or add on later. If the core of the game is bad, I won't even be wasting my money on the release, so any payment scheme doesn't matter to me anyway.

    I don't buy the "pay to win" and "dividing the community" arguments either. Again, if the core of the games is good, neither of those bother me and if its bad it won't affect me because I won't be playing anyway.

    This all reminds me of a narrative just being parrotted over and over and over again. And its almost like you have to tow the party line if you want to be accepted as one of the "cool kids". No thanks, I never want to be one of the so called "cool kids", because I usually do not think they are cool at all.
     
  8. Trini Chinese

    Trini Chinese Generation 6

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    it all good and fine to pay for content that adds to the game or any game that adds to it.
    but with the concept of the loot box in starwars and how it is is not good .
    as you already paid for the game and gamers / consumers are being charge more money to access the content that you already paid for. faster .
    example it's like buying a bucket of chicken , paying for your meal. and then told that you can pay them more money for you to access the food you already paid for the drum sticks which is at the bottom of the pale .
    so you are paying more money for something you already paid for /own.
    it's not additional chicken to your meal. but being asked or force to pay to access the best part of something that you already own and can get on your own but was purposely packed to make it difficult to access .
     
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  9. ensc

    ensc Generation 7
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    I will admit, I have not followed the specific details with the Star Wars game, so I appreciate you taking the time to try to explain it to me Trini. I guess I can understand why this might upset some people, but I remain consistent on how I feel about this. If the game is good, any payment system does not bother me. I mean, sure, will it tick me off for awhile if someone else can beat me because they chose to purchase something that I've chose to just earn or unlock later on? Yeah, it might perturb me a little bit, but if the game is good, it doesn't really bother me that much, because I'm still enjoying the game and their advantage will not last forever, so it is almost like they are paying money for something that has an expiration date. And, in my opinion, in the long run, they are actually paying money for a disadvantage, because they are actually pulling out a gun and shooting themselves in the foot. I know that probably sounds like it makes no sense on the surface, but I think it will once I explain the logic. So someone else buys the game and buys all of the in-game advantages (that I choose not to buy, but will be able to earn over time later). So, right out of the gate they are destroying the crap out of me, but now what is happening here?
    1) They are using every crutch in the game and not being challenged to learn or improve any battle tactics.
    2) On my end, it is like I am coming out of the gate as a Level 1 going against a Level 10 (or worse), so what does this do on my end? I am forced to become skilled in every little minutia of movement, defense and strategic offense in order to have any chance of going against this temporarily "higher level" opponent.
    3) Eventually, I am going to earn and acquire all of the same in-game advantages and Level-wise we will be equals, however skill-wise, it will probably feel to them as if I am now the Level 10 (or worse) and they are the Level 1 player.
    4) Yes, we will have the same tools at some point, but I learned how to become the ultimate warrior even without the tools, but now I have the tools on top of that. They on the other hand, have been leaning on those tools all along and never had to learn how to move efficiently, take cover efficiently or attack strategically.

    BOTTOM LINE: They paid money for a short-term advantage that will have an expiration date at which point it actually switches to becoming a disadvantage.

    You see, if you follow the logic all the way through on these things, this is why I am so adamant that if the core of the game is good, the payment system does not matter.
     
  10. rainman0211

    rainman0211 Generation 7
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    Well put E-Man. Very true.
     
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  11. ensc

    ensc Generation 7
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    Thanks! I appreciate it.
     
  12. Trini Chinese

    Trini Chinese Generation 6

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  13. Trini Chinese

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  14. Trini Chinese

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  15. ensc

    ensc Generation 7
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    #15 ensc, Nov 18, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017
    Trini my boy, Master of Images and Master of Videos.

    Yeah, that totally makes sense if Disney forced EA to kill the bad press.

    In that 3rd video there, that guy makes some of the same points I've made about if the game is good, the payment system doesn't matter and eventually the paid advantage will be gone. He also explains how they are very limited on what they can do cosmetically, because everything has to be submitted and put through an approval process to insure it is authentic to Star Wars.

    My take on all this is gamers are real jerks. They want their damn cake and they want to eat it too. They don't want a Season Pass, because they think all DLC should be free, so the publisher/developer needs to come up with a way to get money to use to develop the DLC. So, they could sell cosmetics, but are limited on what they can do with that due to the approval process and not being able to go crazy with it because it has to fit in the Star Wars universe. So, they try to come up with a way to let people progress faster if they are willing to pay money to do it, which as I've explained and this guy does, it is only a temporary advantage with an expiration date, which I have said switches to a disadvantage at that point, because they were relying too heavily on crutches.

    But NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
    We want all new content for free.
    We want a lot of it.
    We want it to be really good and cool.
    We don't want anyone to have any advantage even temporarily.
    We don't want a divided community even temporarily.

    Delusional cry babies living in a fantasy world.

    TF1 did it absolutely perfectly and it is the model all others should follow.

    $60 release with paid DLC (had to be good enough to keep people around to be there to buy the DLC)
    $10 DLC1 (2 months after release, had to be good enough for people to want to pay for it)
    $10 DLC2(2 months after DLC1, had to be good enough for people to want to pay for it)
    $10 DLC3(2 months after DLC2, had to be good enough for people to want to pay for it)
    Divided Community? NO! because after 1 year everyone who had not purchased DLC got it for free

    What was the result there for different types of people?

    LOW BUDGET OR REFUSE TO PAY EXTRA
    -only paid $60 for the release and did not pay for any DLC
    -got to play the base game for 1 year that was far superior to what TF2 was even after all of its supposed "free DLC"
    -after 1 year, got 9 more maps for free (same number as TF2 launched with), but that were larger and extremely well desgned

    LITTLE EXTRA MONEY, BUT CHOOSY
    -same as above, however, at the 2 month, 4 month or 6 month marks, they were able to take a look at the new DLC when it was available and decide if they felt it was worth buying them or not and if so, they had the option of getting some content and enjoying it sooner rather than waiting the full year until it is free to everyone.

    UNLIMITED BUDGET OR DIE HARD
    -same as above, however, they are most likely going to immediately purchase all 3 DLCs as soon as they are available and get to enjoy that additional content sooner rather than waiting the full year until it is free to everyone.

    This benefitted everyone in the best possible way.
    -everyone got top quality content whether you only bought the release, some DLC content or all DLC content.
    -those who wanted new content sooner and were willing to pay for it, got to enjoy it, which financed the publisher/developer to maintain that top quality
    -after 1 year, even those on the low budget got to enjoy ALL of that top quality content for free that had been financed by those who were willing or able to pay for it

    I'm telling you man, TF1 is the absolute perfect model and it should not be dismissed:
    -top quality release
    -top quality DLCs
    -no in-game purchases
    -no divided community (because after 1 year everyone gets everything)
    -publisher/developer gets $60 for release and $10 for each DLC from those who are willing to pay for them
     
  16. ensc

    ensc Generation 7
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    #16 ensc, Nov 18, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017
    One more thing, but I wanted to keep it separate from the rest of that. Cosmetics should not be the funding mechanism. Many people cry that they do not want anyone to be able to pay for in-game advantages or for things that divide the community (both of which could only be temporary), but rather that you should only be able to pay for cosmetics. Yet, they expect cosmetic only purchases to supply enough money to allow the development of other quality content. I'm sorry, but its just not going to happen. It is never going to be enough money and TF2 was a perfect example of this. They rode this "free DLC" horse to death, installed a cosmetic store to finance DLC content and all you got was 1 mish mash of the Training Gauntlet map and 6 TF1 retread maps.

    If you want to have a good quality release and good quality DLC, then it has to rely on a fully priced DLC model as TF1 was.

    As far as cosmetics, the goal there should not be purchasing pre-manufactured skins. The goal there should be developing a customization area in the game that allows YOU to spend hours, days or weeks customizing every square inch of your titans, pilots or weapons, so that they are truly custom and not something you pay for that 100s or 1000s of other people could have the same thing. That's not custom at all.

    This customization area could almost be like a therapeutic game within a game. You are playing the game and get frustrated by getting steamrolled by cheaters or clans. Let me take a break and go work on a custom paint job on my Stryder for a couple hours. Ahh, now I feel better. :)

    EDIT: I've been really thinking about this and I believe I have just come up with a brilliant revolutionary idea that could change everything in the gaming world and give everyone what they want. Actually, I think it warrants a thread of its own, so I will post that link here after I create it.
    http://www.titanfall-community.com/...e-dlc-content-by-selling-user-creations.9390/
     
  17. Ik0n88x

    Ik0n88x Generation 7
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    You seem to forget.

    1). TF1 had the same player base and player drop-off as TF2. After a year, there was under 2,000 total people playing the game.. so who are you not separating, most people aren't playing then anyways.

    2). People did the math and it was going to take over 40hrs of gameplay to unlock 1 Hero, or you could purchase it which gives you a severe gameplay advantage. If you don't see the problem in making people pay for stuff that's already in the game but behind hours upon hours of gameplay, don't know what to tell you. There is a reason there has been such an uproar on multiple sides about this. Because while yes, you'll eventually unlock it, it won't be for quite some time.
     
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  18. ensc

    ensc Generation 7
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    #18 ensc, Nov 19, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
    Hi Ik0n, even it seems so, I am not trying to argue with you here. I very much prefer and appreciate our agree to disagree relationship and not stepping on each other's toes. Also, I know that MOST would agree with you on this. I am definitely in the very slim minority and I understand that, but I still believe my points are valid and I will continue to lay out my case, hopefully where it does not come off in an argumentative kind of way.

    My main point is that if dividing the community temporarily results in higher quality DLC content, then I think that is a good thing. And if you are dividing them early, when the user base is larger then it can be barely noticable. I actually played the heck out of TF1 and did not buy the DLC packs right away. The only thing I ever noticed was that once in awhile, and not very often, I can remember maybe 5 times, if that, at the end of a game, I would no longer be with some of the same people that were on both teams. They must have gone to a map I didn't have, so it threw me into a different game on a map I did have. The not being with the same people thing happens between virtually every game in TF2 now and that is without even so called "dividing the community". The bottom line is TF1 had higher quality DLC by dividing the community temporarily in a barely noticeable way.
    It is just my personal opinion and I maintain that they are paying for a temporary advantage that has an expiration date (which is when Ik0n earns the thing they paid for by doing so in the game) at which point they are going to now be at a HUGE disadvantage, because in the meantime Ik0n has had to learn how to be creative, clever and innovative and improve his movement skills, defensive skills and learn to attack more strategically to fight against you with your paid advantage. Now, when he earns the advantage, Ik0n has EARNED SKILLS + EARNED ADVANTAGE against you with NO EARNED SKILLS (relying on crutches) + EXPIRED ADVANTAGE (no longer advantage because Ik0n has it too now). And, in my opinion, if them being willing to PAY for a temporary advantage that will eventually expire and turn into a disadvantage results in more $$$ for everyone to get higher quality content then I am all for that. Selling cosmetics alone does not foot the bill for high quality content as evidenced in TF2.
     
  19. Ik0n88x

    Ik0n88x Generation 7
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    Well we'll agree to disagree on most of that. However, I do have one question concerning your post.

    And, in my opinion, if them being willing to PAY for a temporary advantage that will eventually expire and turn into a disadvantage

    I don't really understand how that advantage is going to turn into a disadvantage? It's not like a Hero is something you have to master, it's basically a killstreak. It's never going to turn into a disadvantage. Yes you're going to have to put in 40hrs to get that Hero, but guess what, now that other person has had 40hrs more than you to master that Hero, you'll never have the advantage.

    P2W is the cancer of the gaming industry. Its why the newest Call of Duty can release and the servers and new Headquarters mode still don't work now almost 2 weeks post launch. Let's just release what we have now and patch and add content that we already have post release to get more money. I have no problem paying for DLC or paying for in-game content. There shouldn't be anything purchasable in any games where it gives you a gameplay advantage.
     
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  20. ensc

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    #20 ensc, Nov 19, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
    I appreciate that Ik0n and I very much respect your opinion. Also, like I said, you have the majority in the gaming world on your side. I know I am in the minority on this P2W thing. You make a good point, using the Heroes as an example, that they will have had 40 hours to master the Hero by the time you get it. I would still argue that is not much of an advantage to them, because of the type of person who wants to pay for something rather than earn it. I believe there is an inherent laziness in that, which I think would translate into not even taking the time to learn and capitalize on that advantage the way they could if they were someone willing to work for things. The person who is going to pay for an advantage rather than earn it is not an Ik0n who is going to have the tenacity and persistence to grind out and do whatever it takes to complete every little challenge in every nook and cranny of a game. Therefore, I don't see them putting in the time and effort to fully utilize their "advantage", which to me makes it not that much of an advantage, and again, once you EARN it, you are going to destroy them.

    Also, I think this goes hand in hand with something else that I am on the minority side of. I believe the majority in the gaming community at large are for casualization of games, or being more accomodating and accessible to new players. I am 1000% opposed to that. I would bet money though that most people who are for that are also against P2W, which to me is absolutely hypocritical. Why? Because if you are for casualization, then allowing casual players to use P2W makes the game more fun and accessible to them at least immediately and for a short time, which is probably all a casual player is going to contribute to your user base anyways. About a month or two and now they've moved on to being casual in the next game. So, why not use P2W and suck all of that extra money out of those casual players while they are there in order to bankroll new quality DLC for the dedicated players?